Curse

shrillex · Aug 12, 2007, 12:11 PM // 12:11

I like assassins a lot and i use zenmai a lot but each build i give her doesn't work because she doesn't use them in the right order. Anyone have any good builds for her or works good enough?

Elementer Masta · Aug 12, 2007, 07:18 PM // 19:18

From my experiences with Zenmai, she is useless. She screws up Offhand-Dual-Offhand combos, so no [skill]Moebius Strike[/skill]

I'd try a build utilizing [skill]Flashing Blades[/skill] and a lead-offhand-dual combo like

[skill]Jagged Strike[/skill] [skill]Wild Strike[/skill] [skill]Death Blossom[/skill]

Flashing blades ought to keep her alive, so 99% of the damage should come from elemental sources, and a good hero monk should be able to negate that damage so... good luck.

Stormlord Alex · Aug 12, 2007, 10:28 PM // 22:28

I dunno...
She does seem capable of Moebius/DB looping (setting her to attack test dummies) - however - she's none too fast using attack skills at all, ever, therefore whatever she does as an Assassin, she'll fail.

Maybe give her BiP or Frenzy and make a Bone Fiend out of her? Seems about as useful as she can ever be

Antithesis · Aug 13, 2007, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Critical Barrager works fine.

Leonidas2 · Aug 13, 2007, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Oh come on! Zenmai is amazing DPS! (End Sarcasm)

The best DPS you'll ever get out of Zenmai is Unyeilding Aura and Death Nova

Sheriff · Aug 14, 2007, 07:18 AM // 07:18

I use her as A/D with a scythe, and with Critical Defenses she becomes a pretty good tank

Wyler_Clan · Aug 15, 2007, 07:34 PM // 19:34

I use her as a A/P and give her a spear, she makes a pretty good critical spear. But, her 'sin skills leave a lot to be desired....

Ensign · Aug 15, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

I was messing around with builds for the weaker hero professions this last week trying to figure out what they could use effectively. Heroes are sufficiently bad at skill chaining that any common Assassin build you'd want to give her is going to fail miserably.

That said I've been pretty happy with this bar on my Zenmai, happy enough to want to run the character in certain zones:

Siphon Strength
Siphon Speed
Black Spider Strike
Black Lotus Strike
Death Blossom
Impale
Disrupting Dagger/Critical Eye
Resurrection Signet

13 Critical Strikes, 11 Dagger Mastery, 11 Deadly Arts

Unlike every other bar I've made the AI uses this particular character really well. It'll pick a target, put Siphon Strength on it, then is happy to use one of the Black skills on the hexed target. It isn't super fast with using the Death Blossom followup, but you're waiting on the recharges on your Black skills anyway so it isn't a big deal. Impale is used consistently after Death Blossom when it's recharged. It's not a fast combo like it would be on a player Assassin, but everything is used about as fast as it could be.

The Siphon Speed is basically just a backup hex when targets die quickly, and gets used for that purpose. It's also pretty good for Hard Mode mobs that like to run away. You can put any other hex in there though, or drop it entirely if you have a heavy hex build to take both Critical Eye and Disrupting Dagger.

legacyofkain85 · Aug 16, 2007, 02:53 PM // 14:53

I might be wrong but dont know if anyone tried this before,to give a hero a mobs skill bar with some tweaks for example i gaved some of mi heroes skill bars from the shadow army and they kinda work good.

Marverick · Aug 18, 2007, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Yea she fails with daggers... auto attacks most of the time for whatever reason.

Critical Strikes 10+2+1
Scythe Mastery 12
Earth Prayers 8

[skill]Critical Defenses[/skill][skill]Ebon Dust Aura[/skill][skill]Eremite's Attack[/skill][skill]Mystic Sweep[/skill][skill]Sharpen Daggers[/skill][skill]Vital Boon[/skill][skill]Critical Eye[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Francis Demeules · Aug 22, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

Yea she fails with daggers... auto attacks most of the time for whatever reason.

Critical Strikes 10+2+1
Scythe Mastery 12
Earth Prayers 8

[skill]Critical Defenses[/skill][skill]Ebon Dust Aura[/skill][skill]Eremite's Attack[/skill][skill]Mystic Sweep[/skill][skill]Sharpen Daggers[/skill][skill]Vital Boon[/skill][skill]Critical Eye[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Hope you have an ebon mod on it because it doesn't work without any earth converter enchantment.

MirkoTeran · Aug 23, 2007, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Unlike every other bar I've made the AI uses this particular character really well. It'll pick a target, put Siphon Strength on it, then is happy to use one of the Black skills on the hexed target. It isn't super fast with using the Death Blossom followup, but you're waiting on the recharges on your Black skills anyway so it isn't a big deal. Impale is used consistently after Death Blossom when it's recharged. It's not a fast combo like it would be on a player Assassin, but everything is used about as fast as it could be.

The Siphon Speed is basically just a backup hex when targets die quickly, and gets used for that purpose. It's also pretty good for Hard Mode mobs that like to run away. You can put any other hex in there though, or drop it entirely if you have a heavy hex build to take both Critical Eye and Disrupting Dagger.

How much micromanagement do you use? I've tried this build and found it relatively effective but with 2 or 3 problems.
- Sometimes it runs out of energy way to fast. Not always, just sometimes.
- She's casting hexes on already hexed foes all the time.
- Running out of combat. This is the major problem. Even at full health and enough energy to keep attacking she will run away from enemy a lot of times for a few seconds. Then it either stands there a few sec or casts a hex and runs back in. Might be the fact I'm playing as monk and I'm in the back-line but still annoying. I tested this in NM and HM and with aggressive and defensive(middle) AI options and almost same result.

Draikin · Aug 23, 2007, 02:02 PM // 14:02

[skill]Critical Defenses[/skill][skill]Critical Eye[/skill][skill]Golden Fox Strike[/skill][skill]Wild Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill][skill]Moebius Strike[/skill][skill]Flurry[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

This build seems to work reasonably well, the AI will loop through DB-moebius and keep flurry and Critical Defenses/Eye up most of the time. The only problem of course is that the AI is horribly slow at skill chaining which kinda kills the effectiveness of the build. You could swap Critical Eye for Impale but they'll usually run out of energy without it.

Ensign · Aug 23, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

I don't micro my heroes all that heavily in PvE. Usually I just set flags and targets for them. I don't enjoy having to micro hero skill uses and rarely do.

The energy on that bar is amazingly good. It only becomes bad when you're rolling through easy mobs, and she doesn't get a chance to attack a monster before it dies. If that happens she's just running around casting hexes without getting energy from Critical Strikes or Black Lotus Strike. But who cares because everything's blowing up. When monsters don't die her energy is bottomless.

Hexes are used on already hexed foes, but why is that bad? The hexes are there because they're good hexes and I want them to be cast on foes, they aren't just there as a pointless hex to meet the condition on BLS / BSS. Zenmai likes to maintain Siphon Strength on whatever she's attacking, even with a stack of hexes there. I see that as a good thing.

Running out of combat when playing a Monk sounds like a general melee hero problem. In my experience she doesn't even do a very good job running away when under fire. Heroes will disengage quickly if you retreat from combat, so if you're playing a Monk just taking a step or two back can do that. Try planting a flag near the mob you're fighting. But make sure it's close enough, because if a monster runs out of the flag's range your melee heroes will disengage and find another target that's still in range. If that's a problem particular to that build, I don't know what to say because I haven't noticed it myself.

Voltar · Aug 23, 2007, 11:39 PM // 23:39

You know, I've never had a problem with her not using skills right. She doesn't kick in 1-2-3 instantly but she also hold off when blinded and picks right back up. I don't use her often but when I have, it's been to hassle a caster while the rest of the grouop wason another target. I've never had a dps deficiency with the stuff I've put on her bar...just don't like to use more than one melee ai.

Steps_Descending · Aug 24, 2007, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by legacyofkain85

I might be wrong but dont know if anyone tried this before,to give a hero a mobs skill bar with some tweaks for example i gaved some of mi heroes skill bars from the shadow army and they kinda work good.

If you pick a mob with (near to) no scripted AI it whould work fine. And if it doesn't wind up good at least it would have some RP flavor.

Moral55 · Aug 24, 2007, 02:39 AM // 02:39

I don't know, i'm really happy with Zen currently. It took a lot of skill fiddling to find something she wont blow at though.

Leaping mantis sting
fox fangs
twisted fang
siphon strength
crit eye
Shroud of distress/ crit defense
return
optional / res sig

15 dagger mastery
7 deadly arts
?? shadow arts
12 crit mastery

Francis Demeules · Aug 24, 2007, 02:43 AM // 02:43

I dont use any Rune on my heroes (bc I see they dont really need ones and they do a good job) with zenmai, I use blinding powder with her and she works like a charm.